Author Topic: Overcrowding - Illegal Students  (Read 14139 times)

Offline wetochwink

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Overcrowding - Illegal Students
« on: April 20, 2004, 08:39:27 AM »
Bergenfield cuts students who live elsewhere

In Sunday's record - great article on Bergenfield cracking down on illegal students. 

Why is it that we do not hear of such news for our school system? Anyone cheating the system should be kicked out and sent a bill to recover costs.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 10:34:27 PM by Editor »



Semanon

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Re: Overcrowding - Illegal Students
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2004, 02:23:15 PM »
You'll never hear anything about it in this town.  You ought to see how the "free lunch" program is handled with all the non-information supplied by the parents.

Offline Editor

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Re: Overcrowding - Illegal Students
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2005, 07:22:29 PM »

Offline irons35

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Re: Overcrowding - Illegal Students
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2005, 10:37:05 AM »
nothing will ever happen in Hackensack in regard to this.  just take a look around the bus stops in the morning.  the 178 from Washington Heights comes over the cedar lane bridge and drops off kids by Sears, who then walk to the middle school.  Then you have the bus stop next to the 5-6 school.  lots ok kids get on those buses in the afternoon and dont get off at the last stop in Hackensack at Hudson & Moonachie Road.  Look at all of the out of state license plates around Fairmount and the Middle School at 3pm.  Look at the buses that go to Paterson in the PM.  nothing is being done at all, the status quo effect. 

If it were done right, the school system would easily lose 500-800 students that shouldnt be there in the first place. but nobody wants to do anything about it...

Offline wetochwink

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Re: Overcrowding - Illegal Students
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2005, 02:55:28 PM »
It wont get done simply because that would be reduction in staffing due to student reduction and the BOE budget would have to come down and your taxes would be cheaper.

Its easier to let the system run amuk and raise everyone's taxes as needed.

Strap in - the tax reassesment is coming!

Offline average Joe

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Re: Overcrowding - Illegal Students
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2005, 05:22:59 PM »
count on "Mr Wet" to come up with a conspiracy theory !
Was Montesano on the grassy knoll in Dallas?

Anthony

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Re: Overcrowding - Illegal Students
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2005, 09:35:02 PM »
Taxes are going up whether they kick the illegal kids out or not.  If enrollment goes down, the BOE will still justify the increase.

Hey Joe, how many Hackensack kids do you think attend private schools and why?  Even though we're talking about illegal students coming in, I'm curious why so many Hackensack parents send their kids out.


Offline itsme

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Re: Overcrowding - Illegal Students
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2005, 03:45:45 PM »
In all fairness, the BOE does attempt to stop the illegal students.  As students register to attend school, their parents are required to present a lease/deed and a utility bill to prove that they reside in the city.  I know a family who moved from Hackensack to Bogota and was forced to repay the BOE.  If you know of any student who is attending school illegally, notify the BOE. 

ericmartindale

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Re: Overcrowding - Illegal Students
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2005, 09:33:16 AM »
OK, I see people like "Anthony" are back to the old arguments in stating the "so many" families in Hackensack use private schools. If he wants to believe that, fine, but let's see someone back it up with statistics. What percent of families in Hackensack use private schools, and compare that to other towns. What percent of families in Maywood, Paramus, River Edge, and Teaneck use private schools? I think people like Anthony would be shocked.

Until earlier this year, my daughter was an honor student at the 5/6 school. She was on the "Principle's List" and had all straight A's. My x-wife was evicted for not paying the mortgage, and rented a place in Palisades Park. I've seen the system there, and it's totally inferior to Hackensack. Honestly, I'd rather have my daughter in Englewood schools than Palisades Park. Pal Park has 2 schools, K-6 and 7-12. Great, so next year my daughter will be in school with high school boys. The school is obviously underfunded, and the senior citizens are in total contempt of public education that is going mostly to Asian and Latino students. The school system is totally underfunded. And worst of all, there's a gigantic culture war that permeats the atmosphere of the community, Italians vs. Koreans. All students are forced to learn Italian, which is absolutely useless unless you have Italian relatives to speak with. I don't, nor does 85% - 90%  of the students in Palisades Park. My daughter hates it there, she says even the kids there are mean, and she wishes she could come back to Hackensack.

Anthony

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Re: Overcrowding - Illegal Students
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2005, 06:01:09 PM »
Eric, I’m not sure what you mean by “people like Anthony,” but I find it insulting. 

I live in the Fairmount section and there are Hackensack families that I personally know of where twelve kids go to private schools.  Eleven go to Catholic schools, one goes to Bergen Tech.  Twelve kids within a couple of blocks.  How about the entire city?  I’m sure the BOE can give you an exact amount.  If I’m not mistaken, all of the receiving schools must report to the BOE who the students are that attend their school.

For whatever reason, whether you want to believe it or not Eric, many people in Hackensack send their kids to private schools because they don’t have confidence in this school system.  It seems as though your ex-wife might feel the same way.  If she felt as strongly about the schools as you do, maybe she would move back into town and continue to send your daughter to the middle school.  Also, are those straight A’s your daughter getting real A’s?  The link below will take you to the HHS top 20 of 2005.  One kid goes to William Paterson and another to Bergen Community.  The 13th smartest kid in HHS can’t go to a better college than William Paterson, and the 17th smartest graduate could only get into a community college? 

http://hackensackhigh.org/top20.html


Offline average Joe

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Re: Overcrowding - Illegal Students
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2005, 07:25:22 PM »
anthony- even the most ardent slimers of the hackensack school system have always conceded that the kids at the "top" i.e. "the top 20" would excel whereever they went to school
you on the other hand have sunk to a new low-guess what? some of these kids choose state schools-yes even BCC, out of family financial situations-in fact i seem to recall about a year ago a story about a grad of BCC transferring to Yale-so there is a mehod to most of it-tho that wouldnt fit into your world view im sure
dont let facts get in the way of you venom

Anthony

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Re: Overcrowding - Illegal Students
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2005, 09:27:20 PM »
Venom?  How about honesty?  How can you sit there and say there is nothing wrong with a school system that can’t get an academic scholarship to a better school than Bergen Community College for a student that’s ranked 17th in it’s class?

Don’t give me that baloney about “family financial situations.”  Where is the Blue and Gold Scholarship Fund, http://blueandgoldscholarship.com  to help these kids out if their grades aren’t good enough to earn an academic scholarship to a better school than BCC?

I would love more than anything to feel confident enough in the quality of education in Hackensack.  I’m a graduate and I would’ve been thrilled if my kids graduated from HHS.  I bought my house in the same neighborhood I grew up in so that I could send them to the same schools.  I’m not willing to take the only chance they’ll have in life to get a great education.  It’s got nothing to do with venom (or grassy knolls). 

As our taxes go up, the BOE and the administration should be held accountable for the lack of results.  Forget about the test scores.  For what our taxes are, there should be a 100% graduation rate and 100% of the kids should be going to college or trade school. 

Average Joe, I’ve sunk to a new low?  Don’t blame me, blame your buddies running the school system.  No conspiracy theories, just look at the facts.  And take off those rose colored glasses while you’re at it.     

ericmartindale

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Re: Let's Blitz all of Nigito's units
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2005, 10:12:45 PM »
Thank you for setting “Anthony” straight. It’s time to stop with the VENOM. Unlike "Anthony" I have constructive ideas on making changes for the better.

I read Dan Kirch’s piece today in the County Seat and found it very credible. I was active in the Hiller’s PTA for a few years. The natural extension of Kirch’s argument is to identify where the poorly performing students live. They are not living in houses scattered throughout the Hillers school district.. Most of them are in 3 complexes (1) 2 Prospect Ave, at corner of Essex (2) 64 Prospect Ave, at the corner of Atlantic, and (3) 265-275 Beech Street, at the corner of Second Street. They are all large 5-story Pre-war buildings,  all  have a lot of poor families with little or no English ability, and all 3 buildings are managed by Nigito Realty. In addition, Nigito family members  own tenements packed with kids on the northern block of Fair Street.

Now, we saw what our new Mayor & Council did at 385 Prospect Ave, the building owned by Joan Miller. They blitzed the building, issued over 300 violations, and the fines collected by the city were in the six figures. And that was a luxury building built in the early 1970’s. Does anyone doubt that the condition in these 3 Nigito complexes are as bad or worse?

Why the Zisa administration failed to ever go to war against Nigito Realty is one of the great mysteries of Hackensack politics. They did a lot of good for Hackensack, but their “hands off” policy on Nigito Realty was one of their great failings. The new council should declare war on Nigito Realty, and do it ASAP.

City inspectors should blitz every building, every house, and every tenement that Nigito manages in the City of Hackensack. Once those 3 buildings are fully renovated, they will attract a higher level of tenant. In all likelihood, they will still be primarily immigrant buildings, but there will be a higher standard of living, and higher rents. The result is that the immigrant families won’t be so desperately poor and English-deficient. Within 3 years, there could be a noticeable change at the Hiller’s school. 

Planning and property maintenance is the key to it all. By directing energy in the right places, the mayor & council have more power than the BOE in raising test scores. Teachers everywhere want to teach and for the most part they do the best they can. So why do some schools score so much higher than others. Simple answer: All across NJ, test scores are 90% a socioeconomic beauty contest and only 10% a reflection on the quality of teachers, administrators, programs, and facilities. People who know me are sometimes surprised that someone who cares so deeply about education never attends BOE meetings, but is a regular at Planning and Zoning Board meetings. That’s because planning and zoning is the key to improving education, not the BOE or any of it’s decisions.

So here’s my plan to fix the test scores at Hillers, and it doesn’t even involve the BOE. 39 luxury units were just completed at 39 Union Street, a 4-story upscale complex is under construction at the bend of Essex Street, 90 units are planned at 94 State Street, and another 24 units may be built nearby.  All these buildings are in the Hillers school district. These are all quality buildings, and I will state with certainty that the students from these buildings will increase the aveage test scores at Hillers. By blitzing Nigito’s holdings and building new luxury units, Hiller’s school can advance in test scores and be safe in all the sub-categories. It’s basically a 3-year plan.

Anthony

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Re: Overcrowding - Illegal Students
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2005, 04:26:54 PM »
Eric, no venom just reality.  The truth hurts but things can change.

I have some constructive ideas also, but let me expand a little on the reality of this situation.  The reality is that when a young family decides to move into a town, the first thing discussed with the real estate agent is the school system.  Test scores are a huge selling point.  People like Dan Kirsch can put as much spin on the test scores as they want.  I think many people looking to start or raise a family are not going to buy a house in a town where the test scores are as low as they are in Hackensack.  Now before you get your feathers ruffled, I don’t have concrete statistical data (neither do you, by the way), but I will say this.  It's my opinion that many, not all, of the people with kids that buy in town are just happy they can realize the dream of home ownership, even if it means sending their kids to a school system that needs work.  In their eyes owning a home in Hackensack is better than renting an apartment in Oradell and sending their kids to better school system like River Dell.   

Also, your plan about the luxury buildings is off base.  The people that are buying luxury condos or renting luxury apartments are dual income, no kids couples.  Once they have kids, they’re into a house in a town with a better school system.  Or like myself and so many other parents in Hackensack, they send their kids to private schools.  Have you spoken to anyone within the school system to find out how many kids go to private school?

Here are some of my constructive ideas:

1.   Crackdown on the illegal students.  This is a huge problem to the students and the taxpayers.  Take whatever means possible and sue the parents to recover the cost.
2.   If the language barrier is the biggest hurdle to overcome in educating these kids, educate them in their native tongue and teach them English separately.  In other words if the student only understands Spanish, what sense does it make to have an English speaking teacher teach him Math or Social Studies or Science, etc.?  The kid isn’t going to learn because he can’t fully understand what the teacher is saying.  Have a Spanish speaking teacher teach the kids in Spanish.  Then teach the student English separately.
3.   If this isn’t possible, do what it takes to educate the parents about the importance of learning English and seeing that their kids learn it as well.  Where are all the social groups, churches, politicians, etc. to help these people learn English?  Don’t make them learn English, encourage them to learn English.  Bombard the neighborhoods with opportunities at church, school, home, possibly work, etc.  How great would it be for Councilman Meneses to teach English to a group of children after Mass on Sunday?  It’s a community effort.
4.   Ask “people like Anthony” why they send their kids to private schools.  Send out a questionnaire asking what it would take to send their kids to the Hackensack schools.  This is the first year I’ve ever seen HHS advertise an Open House.  Parents can go and speak with administrators, teachers, coaches and students about everything HHS has to offer.  GREAT IDEA!  The school system should do that with all the schools.  Give “people like Anthony” a reason to send their kids to the schools.

Eric, you think the Hackensack schools would be better if landlords “attracted a higher level of tenet.”  In your eyes, that will raise the test scores at Hillers and the other schools.  I think if you give parents a reason to send their kids to the schools, they will.  I want the school system to show me that despite the huge immigrant population and economic situation many of the parents are in, the Hackensack schools rose to the occasion and educated their kids.  I want to see that all of those tax dollars went to reinventing how kids in a unique situation like Hackensack’s became educated enough to pass any test they had to take.  Why can’t I expect that if my son is the 17th smartest kid in his graduating class he’ll get a scholarship to a four year university instead of attending a community college?

As for the spin from Dan Kirsch, stop making excuses!  He wants the kids tested as 5th graders to see their progress.  Aren’t they tested as 8th graders?  Also, why hasn’t the BOE sued the state and/or federal government to stop programs like “No Child Left Behind” if they think the programs don’t work?  Enough with the spin.  “As an elected Hackensack school board member,” roll up your sleeves and get to work.

Offline Editor

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« Last Edit: November 05, 2005, 12:15:58 AM by Editor »

 

anything