Author Topic: CSPNJ Services for Homeless: Susbtance Abusers and Mentally Ill - Pro and/or Con  (Read 17932 times)

Offline Oratam_Weaping

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"Homeless" in Hackensack as elsewhere in the nation,  is a stigmatic term that has often inaccurately described individuals with drug addiction, and varying degrees of mental illness, which, often culminates into a visible condition on the streets of cites characterized by vagrancy, panhandling, trespassing, public drinking and intoxication, and often crime.  In the case of the City of Hackensack,  homeowners, business owners and even office workers and their visitors and clients, have been subjected to an uncomfortable, and arguably 'damaging' degree of "Homeless" activity. 
Many have pointed to the County of Bergen for providing services which attract homeless in numbers and ways that surface as behavioral problems surfacing as conditions that create a negative perception of a city; leading further to a sharper economic downfall than would normally be the result of joblessness, social dysfunction, and administrative incompetence. .

This thread shall hope to expose and/or present factual information, and opinion which points to a solution, which, not only will show a path of possible managerial enlightenment to help place this city on a positive track to economic recovery; but, also substance and information that will address and propose solutions to providing support to the homeless (and the economic health of Hackensack) that will actually help, by exposing those who would use government funds to provide their own salaries. And saving tax payers in the city and county, and state millions of dollars.

Here are two news aticles which reference the application: http://www.northjersey.com/news/125468753_Mental_health_center_seeks_OK_to_relocate.html  and http://www.northjersey.com/news/071411_Hackensack_seeks_more_info_in_relocation_of_self-help_center.html
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 10:28:57 PM by Oratam_Weaping »



Offline Oratam_Weaping

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At 7:00 PM on August 10th 2001, the Hackensack Planning Board will reconvene at council chambers, 65 Central Avenue to decide application originally heard on July 13th.  Arguably the influx of "homeless" from other towns to settle into a growing number of rooming houses over the past 20 years has grown considerably in large part due to CSPNJ.  The have operate a 'drop-in' center which they claim to be a vocational rehabilitation center.
At that meeting, a representative admitted that CSPNJ obtains its clients through direct contact with clients and by distributing fliers at homeless shelters, and such places as correction facilities, mental clinics, all over the state. This writer has learned that the more clients the center brings in, the more taxpayer funds it receives from the state and county government through grants.
CSPNJ receives all of its funding from public funds, but does not provide treatment, and the organization does not utilize staff or rehabilitation methods prooven to work. Aside from claims more suited to public relations and grant-writing CSPNJ is unable to produce solid evidence that the "vocational skills" the centers claim to administer are effective, or designed or employed by any other private or government agencies. There is no third party data but they are aware of the guidelines enough skirt enough qualifications to duplicate, if ineffectively, existing services provided by the county and state agencies already in Hackensack. 
The sharp increase of drug abusers, alcoholics, and criminals, all classified 'Mentally Ill' and a large client base of CSPNJ taken up residence in rooming houses, and homeless wandering the streets of Hackensack over the past 12 years can be traced to the activities of CSPNJ. Now they want to expand. If they succeed in moving into 1 Essex Street they can effectively turn a 40 person per day 7 days per week center to a 200 person per day center and there is nothing that could stop them short of being defended, or driven out by public outcry, or investigated by the State of New Jersey. Hackensack may become the Camden of Bergen County. And as the economy changes rooming houses and rented rooms will be popping up in the Fairmount section. The Upper Main Street Alliance will sadly be cut off from the root system of Hackensack. With the Historic Downtown court house area deserted even more. Office space will become less desirable, property values will decline and the tax base will be further strained.

What does not make any sense is that the City of Hackensack seems set to approve the Change of Use of 1 Essex Street owned by Peter Tucci, Sr. a former member of the Zoning Board in Hackensack. Peter Tucci Jr. represents CSPNJ now located at 179 Main Street in what has been described by some residents as a Homeless Drop-In Center. CSPNJ was not brought up by the board as not having enough spaces in a change of use.  However the city had turned down many other applicants due to parking deficiencies. In 2008, when the HoHoKus School vacated at 66 Moore Street, and the city denied  a 2008 application to a Bible School, the decision to deny that applicant was based on Parking. Again, in a more recent Decision. See of this July 18th 2011 report in the record http://www.northjersey.com/news/125729068_Church_wants_to_open_Hackensack_school.html

Although the Church wants to renovate the building on Moore Street, which is the difference in law in the application; the 1 Essex Street location is cited as permitted use, and conditions are pre-existing. CSPNJ does not seek to renovate 1 Essex Street. However, the impact to the court house area, Main Street, and the entire city of Hackensack should be a reasonable cause to deny CSPNJ permission to re-locate, and it is questionable if tax-payer dollars should be allowed to fund a center which unsuccessfully duplicates services in Hackensack, and has been a known source of problems.

The current location at 179 Main Street has been said to be a source of problems that can be seen as the cause of the increase of the so-called "Homeless as far South as Little Ferry, and as far North as Maywood. CSPNJ helps their clients obtain rooms . CSPNJ is not qualified nor does CSPNJ provide treatment or psychological counseling. Besides what CSPNJ incorrectly terms as term as vocational rehabilitation like "Teaching them how to fill out job applications" a direct quote, CSPNJ provides direction to acquire local housing in the area. This is not limited to Hackensack or any one area in Hackensack. 

CSPNJ testified that it advertises and acquires clients  from state and local drug clinics, hospitals, shelters, jails, group homes, and these clients are un-screened, they are free to roam unsupervised throughout the city and do create a negative atmosphere and no checking of their database against police blotter and call or arrests has been conducted.  CSPNJ does not screen their clients for criminal history, or possibly dangerous behavioral health problems, and is not a treatment facility. Anyone, without giving accurate or true identity information can request help from CSPNJ in the form of assistance in finding private housing, rooms, and can drop into their centers. The man arrested in the subject of this article could have found his way to Hackensack from any point in New Jersey through CSPNJ http://www.northjersey.com/news/Bergen_sheriffs_officer_attacked_as_he_serves_papers_in_Hackensack.html
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 08:46:01 AM by Oratam_Weaping »

Offline regina

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Oratam, it seems you are suffering from a severe case of NIMBY. And maybe you should take care of your own yard instead of spreading half-truths about a legitimate, and needed, service that has been in Hackensack for many years. I was at that meeting and I know where you are coming from, but what you have posted here is not accurate and you try to blame CSPNJ for a broad spectrum of issues in this City, such as in this statement " the influx of "homeless" from other towns to settle into a growing number of rooming houses over the past 20 years has grown considerably in large part due to CSPNJ". Really? Where did you get this data from?

What really got me to respond to your post is this:

"The man arrested in the subject of this article could have found his way to Hackensack from any point in New Jersey through CSPNJ http://www.northjersey.com/news/Bergen_sheriffs_officer_attacked_as_he_serves_papers_in_Hackensack.html"

Where in this article does it state that there is any relationship to CSPNJ? Are you trying to blame CSPNJ for this man's behavior? That is so wrong!

Also, the testimony was that the "members" come to them through referrals and from private practitioners, not people just walking in off the street. I could be wrong, but I really don't recall this statement having been made "At that meeting, a representative admitted that CSPNJ obtains its clients through direct contact with clients and by distributing fliers at homeless shelters, and such places as correction facilities, mental clinics, all over the state."  It is a voluntary program, which means the people in it want help.

Also this statement in your post "they are free to roam unsupervised throughout the city and do create a negative atmosphere and no checking of their database against police blotter and call or arrests has been conducted" just goes against any and all civil liberties. You are free to roam, but they should not be?

This statement in your post "The current location at 179 Main Street has been said to be a source of problems that can be seen as the cause of the increase of the so-called "Homeless as far South as Little Ferry, and as far North as Maywood" has no factual basis. What is a fact is that the homeless shelter located in Hackensack brings homeless people to Hackensack.

If there were issues at the prior location they are a police matter, not a Planning Board matter. The Board cannot regulate people's behavior. But I have not seen any proof that the behavior you complain of at the prior location is any different from issues being dealt with in other parts of the City (loitering, drinking, trespass, etc.). I guess you blame CPSNJ for all of those incidents citywide?

As far as the actual application is concerned, this is a "vocational training school" which is a permitted use and the applicant did address the parking issues. The Board on the other hand went off topic by discussing issues that would be covered by CCO inspections and have nothing to do with the parking issues.

Seems to me that you are launching a smear campaign against CSPNJ because of personal issues you have with your neighbor. Try to stick to the real facts of the application and don't try to blame this organization for all the homeless, mentally ill and drug abusers in the City.

Offline Oratam_Weaping

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I am not placing the blame for any of these things on CSPNJ, I am, saying that their methods can clearly contribute to a higher degree of problems. And in my opinion they have.  Do you want pictures and police reports that show these problems on the rise since CSP-NJ took root here? I have been watching CSP-NJ "On Our Own" since 1990, my business in the Court House area, was forced to close because their presence added to the death of business in Downtown Hackensack.   Again I am not saying that CSP-NJ was responsible but "Mentally Ill" was a description I overheard for A woman was raped and stabbed about two years ago. Shortly thereafter, another woman was attacked. Do you remember Billy DiLunardi  http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/15/nyregion/communities-death-and-disbelief.html  I wish he was here to comment on this problem, he was hounded by "homeless" people hanging out around his business. Your reply is very wrong because I have the facts and stats to back me up.  There is also an investigation going on into the funding sources and competency of CSP-NJ, and it may be escalated to a Federal level.  CSP-NJ testified on July 13th and you were not there. That testimony is self-evidence but only the tip of the iceberg that CSP-NJ is not qualified, and ineffective; places the community and their own clientele at risk by not screening their clients for violent crime and behavior; and not working with the State and Local authorities from the Criminal Justice System and Mental Health Facilities where they use fliers and word of mouth to bring them to their facility. They are provided a list where potential clients throughout New Jersey and even out of state can take a bus and change location from county to county.   

Let it be documented, so that we can all look back and remember when Hackensack was better than Camden or Paterson: I don't know what William DiLunardi would have said about Collaborative Support Programs of New Jersey (CSP-NJ) moving to One Essex Street which is also 1 Main Street. But my guess is that he would not be pleased. How politically correct does one have to be to be blinded to the fact that it was not the County of Bergen bringing Paroled Prisoners, Potentially Dangerous Mental patients from other counties to Hackensack: CSP-NJ; helps them find rooms in Hackensack; refers them to the Homeless Shelter, and other City and County facilities. That might be a good thing if it was in an industrialized area, and was regulated to actesponsibly, but not even in Hackensack, and Not on Main Street. People are uncomfortable with it. I have been talking to County employees, lawyers, and people up and down the street since July 14th and only got one positive response and that was from a public defender who (by the way) sees many of CSP-NJ clients.

I would like to add, that some business owners; including but not limited to Anne Phan;  FORMER owner sold one of her Nail Salons located at 190 Main Street (a block from CSP-NJ) in Hackensack because, the clientele she would refer from other locations, would not go to the Hackensack location, because of the 'Homeless'  situation, pointing exactly to the Mentally Ill, Criminal Parole, and substance abusers walking up and down Main Street.

Since when do the "Civil Liberties" of a few be allowed to force a city into distress? My yard may be a natural weed setting and it's only because the city will not do their part to make the rest of Fair Street look better. They want to force this area as a distressed location, but  they cannot force us to sell because they do not want to fix the sidewalks on Fair Street.  I will keep my property and adapt it to a rooming house rather than sell it. I have moved a prestigious scholarship endowment meant for a location in Hackensack to Rutherford.  You want your Civil Liberties for people who want to be left on their own so they do not have to follow the rules, not bath, panhandle, sleep in people's yards, commit crimes? Have it your way. At $500 per client, per month I can get referrals from CSP-NJ and net me about 6,000. extra per month and get paid direct from the State of New Jersey. But I will not accept rental subsidies from Hackensack Housing Authority, that is my choice. 
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 10:28:18 PM by Oratam_Weaping »

Offline Editor

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Process for possible relocation of Hackensack mental health center begins
Friday, July 29, 2011
MANAGING EDITOR
Hackensack Chronicle

A self-help center in Hackensack for people with mental health disorders has begun the process to relocate, but city officials have asked for more detailed plans.

The Freehold-based organization that runs the center, known as Collaborative Support Programs of New Jersey, hopes to move from its present Hackensack location at 179 Main St. to a three-story brick building at 1 Essex St. The building at the new site is owned by developer Peter Tucci Sr.

According to center officials, the purpose of the center, which opened in 1988, is to help those with mental disorders as well as people trying to deal with alcohol and drug addictions. The center also helps clients search for jobs and housing, and offers group support. The center's counselors also refer individuals living on the streets to the county homeless shelter.

The new center would be located across from the Bergen County Courthouse on part of the second floor of the brick building. A proposal provided to the city indicates that Collaborative Support Programs wants to run a "vocational, educational, wellness service training" facility for mental health clients that will operate from noon to 7 p.m., Monday through Sunday.

At the July 13 Planning Board meeting, initial testimony was heard about the center's proposed relocation. The proposal does not include any changes to the parking lot or to the Main Street building. However, board Chairman Fernando Garip asked Collaborative Support Programs to supply more information regarding parking, including where a handicapped space would be located, according to a previously published report. John Greenwood, the city's building sub-code official, also asked the applicant for a more detailed floor plan for the board's next meeting, including where the organization's offices would be exactly located.

Some local residents questioned the potential placement of the center in a new location.

"It's very hard to cross that street," said resident Kathleen Salvo. "I'm concerned about anybody crossing there, including all of the people who come for services in Hackensack."

"I have nothing against the mentally ill, but these drop-in centers draw more homeless to the area," said Joseph Campagna, who owns property at 33 Essex St. "They leave these people on their own. This detracts from the neighborhood. I'm really opposed to it."

Officials from Collaborative Support stated that the immediate reason for the move was the expiration of the center's lease at the present location. Long term, the organization believes that the new 2,300-square-foot-space will help serve the approximately 30 people who use the center daily, including a client base that usually takes nearby public transportation or walks to the center.

"We are looking to find a more comfortable space with a little more room," said Irene Sanborn, director of community outreach for the organization, adding that the old site has a very steep staircase that has been difficult for some clients to manage. "Our members deserve the best setting that we can get."

The next planning board meeting is scheduled for Aug. 10 at 7 p.m.

Email: bonamo@northjersey.com

Offline regina

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Oratam, WOW!! You say you have facts but you got this one wrong for sure
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CSP-NJ testified on July 13th and you were not there.
If you read my post I said I was there. I was also at the council meeting when you and Ms Phan spoke. You were not the only one in the room either time.

The rest of your "facts" are also way off base. You are blaming this organization for EVERYTHING that is wrong with Main Street, even for Mr DiLunardi's death. What a stretch of facts and imagination. It is clear to me that you are really reaching for whatever you can find to slam this organization. The article you cite says Mr DiLunardi would give soup to the homeless, yet you say he was "hounded" by them. If I felt people were hounding me I would not be feeding them at night. You state that clients from this organization are responsible for attacks on women - how do you KNOW they were from this organization? You are branding an entire class of people as undesirable.

I guess you must be one of the "lucky" ones who has never had to deal with mental illness (including depression), drug addition or alcoholism with a friend or family member - or you are delusional.

The courthouse is in Hackensack - criminals. The jail is in Hackensack - criminals. Probation is in Hackensack - criminals. The homeless shelter is in Hackensack - homeless. The bus station is in Hackensack - transients. There are liquor stores in Hackensack - some of their customers are alcoholics. Should we get rid of all of these too?

Hopefully whatever the Planning Board decides will be based on the law and not your false accusations.

btw rooming houses are no longer legal in Hackensack, existing ones are permitted but no new ones, so that shoots down that plan for your property.

Offline Oratam_Weaping

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I have moved, and I am going to change the original post, that was in this current post. I have edited  this post with a simple comprehensive reply. The material in this post will be ongoing. Therefore I am asking Regina to carefully read and consider and hold her reply until this post is marked with. "END POST"

My wholehearted and honest intent will place facts, along with reasonable opinion with the concerns for all Hackensack residents, along with equal consideration for the mentally, and emotionally challenged. I have not intentionally blamed CSP-NJ as directly responsible. I mean to say there are consequences that our community has suffered indirectly, and may suffer further still. I will not be sidetracked by emotional response due in part to mis-understanding. In the interest of the continued growth of Hackensack, a positive and fair image, and the safety of all our neighborhoods, I will respond factually and objectively;  any conjecture will be balanced, and well within the realm of higher reasoning in reality. Above all, I will be truthful. All said in a much more simple, and carefully constructed reply. This is an important issue, and I do not want to make any mistakes, or be steered by my own poor choice of words, run-on sentences, etc. Moreover, I have and will not resort, to nor tolerate inflamed emotional responses, accusations, and baseless contradictions.

It is crucial for all Citizens of Hackensack and Business Owners alike, to be aware of the following facts: Homeless are invariably greater than 99% from the ranks of: Mental Outpatients, Recovering Substance Abusers, and Paroled Prisoners.  Most Homeless are not homeless but are sheltered in a variety of means (More on that later).

1) FACT: CSP-NJ has had a presence on Main Street in Hackensack since 1988.
(b) Subjective Fact:  Records will show that the Homeless problem in various areas of Hackensack made a noticeable, gradual, yet sporadic incline since 1989.The incline reduced  and subsided into to a decline when the county installed the new facility for Mental Outpatients, Recovering Substance Abusers, and Paroled Prisoners.
(c) Observation: It is reasonable to agree, that while some of the presence of undesirable persons in Hackensack may be due to issues other than CSP-NJ advertising State and County, as well as private help centers located in  Hackensack and a list of locations throughout the state, it is reasonable to draw a conclusion that CSP-NJ has contributed to the incline of influx by their advertisement, and have created a "transient effect" of people moving from county to county in the cities where CSP-NJ hopes to gain and enlarge grant money by the number of people they serve, regardless if they are served or drop out of the program, or kicked out, they are also free to stay in the city and take up residence just about anywhere, or nowhere.


2) FACT: CSP-NJ stands for Collaborative Suppoprt Programs of New Jersey, which is not a Government agency or licensed treatment facility. It is also not a licensed Vocational Training Center which it leads the public to believe.

3)  FACT: Because CSP-NJ is not a  government agency,  it is not REQUIRED to operate within the guidelines and standards like those operated from the State of New Jersey, County of Bergen, or any licensed facility. By that CSP-NJ is not required, and also testified through their representative that CSP-NJ does not check medical or criminal records. Nor do they have that ability.

4) Conjecture: It is reasonable to believe that CSPNJ does not require or cross check identification, and that apart from federal or state housing applications, false or inadequate identification can be submitted by someone from any place in New Jersey, or the US, if identification is required at all.

5) FACT: Note also that Irene Sanborn testified on behalf of CSP-NJ  ...we don't ask about criminal or medical records... ..clients are free to go to an from any location (In Jersey).. This include the state and private aid resources that CSP-NJ issues to Drug Treatment Centers, Probation Offices, Mental Hospitals, Homeless Shelters, eta al. And, those type locations of CSP-NJ Flier Distribution were included in testimony on July 13th.

6) FACT: The location of CSP-NJ at 179 Main Street does not have Handicap Access, and neither does 1 Essex Street. 1 Essex Street does have the capability to expand their operation while 179 Main Street does not. Reasonable to assume that any number of collaborative agencies can either splinter off CSP-NJ like their sister agency that builds and creates group housing for their clientele.  Similar programs can join CSP-NJ as a neighbor in a similarly unregulated facility; in that location on the third or first floor.

7) FACT: CSP-NJ can avert the "NO Rooming House 'Law"' ANYWHERE -- AND in Hackensack, by converting any single or multi-family dwelling into a Group Home. Group Homes can share kitchen and bath facilities; criminal and drug convictions must be considered equally under the law in a group home or housing applications. Most CSP-NJ clients do not drive and "Walk" to CSP-NJ. Many have found their way to Hackensack through CSP-NJ. Some of them are active alcoholics, panhandlers, drug abusers, and many have ho intent on changing their pattern of chemical or public service dependency.

8 ) FACT: The South Ward, from a few blocks North of the Essex Street Line, West to Green Street, and South to Lodi Street, contains perhaps the largest most densely populated ratio of children to parent that live in a functional family setting; per household to square foot. While some of our business and civic leaders may refer to the 20% of "Those Dominicans" as having a negative impact on the city, might I remind you that I have been living among  Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Dominicans,  Equadorians, Salvadorians, Mexicans, etc... and while many of this ethnic group may be slandered and wrongfully stereo-typed, I stand firm that my Hackensack Hispanic neighbors are among the most respectful, hardworking family oriented, God-fearing individuals of any other ethnic group in this city. We are fortunate here to have such people  and they deserve to be informed as to the exact nature and negative capabilities this center may have upon their neighborhood.

9) FACT:   I informed  Irene Sanborn there are two child day care & nursery centers within one block of the rear lot of 1 Essex Street. I asked if CSP-NJ screens their clientele for history and tendency of pedophilia, whereby  their CSP-NJ attorney protested and objected to the line of questioning. Kids play in the streets, they play behind 1 Essex Street and in the grass lot next door. What about their civil liberties?

10) FACT:  I was falsely arrested in Hackensack in 2005 for protesting in my front yard and being vocal against city policy, for not providing services in the way of a Park for these neighborhood children. While I did cross the line of comfort on the critique of 'the city fathers'  and some of their enforcement practices, I did not deserve to be treated in such a manor. While I did have the grounds and finances to launch a multi-million dollar lawsuit, I refrained from such an action, citing to myself; family loyalty, loyalty to Hackensack, and understanding that my past service has provided a degree of wisdom. A service that which I am not encouraged to speak about from 1972 till 1975, at first requiring parental consent, then a volunteer duty by the signature of my own hand. I am proud of my service and one day I'll write on it if I may.  Knowing that we all suffer from mental and emotional imperfections I am more sensitive to the needs of every aspect of mental illness, but I am a believer or order and effectiveness in dealing with the problems as specialty needs which require compartmentalization.  I have real experience serving within the mental health community in both wartime under a strategic command as a paid volunteer, and in peace time as a volunteer. So I knew that my actions and methods could have been much more diplomatic and Christ-centered. And yes, to me church and state go hand in hand. That's why we say God Bless America. As for my service and experience in the mental health field; they include teaching instrumental music since leaving music college in 1981. My services included for handicapped, as in blind, wheelchair bound; and various mentally ill students including, but not limited to those with one or more problems; like Autism, ADD; Dyslexia; Cerebral Palsy, and other 'disorders.'  While I do agree that Mental Health 'disorders are inclusive of  Substance Abuse and Criminal Behavior, I do NOT AGREE that because (SAMSHA) Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration,  classifies them all as mental illnesses, they are the same, and we must be politically correct to where we must tolerate irresponsibility to the degree that it effects or community in a negative way. De-stigmatizing mental illness does not mean we should not employ common sense checks and balances.

b) OPINION:  CSP-NJ's imposing their irresponsible criteria for running  'On Our Own'  has resulted in stigmatic consequences being further applied or perceived across a wide spectrum of unfortunate individuals. Due to their policies, we as a city have been subject to dealing with the residual overflow of their advertising method resulting more undesirable transient and resident BUMS and a few individuals who may prove to be not ready for society, and may even commit unspeakable acts.  Let's stop using using "Mentally Ill" as a protectionary phrase to whitewash the facts. While paying their Administration high pay, they use untrained volunteers and do not even provide a facility with handicap access.  Encouraging their clients (if only by listing of services and word of mouth) to transfer administrative and taxpayer burdens from one county to the next and not conducting are caring about the impact on our community. Certainly not by cooperating within the system and allowing the Counties' agencies to be apprised and/or approve of such transfers.



More to follow in this post.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 11:38:17 AM by Oratam_Weaping »

Offline regina

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Those are not facts. They are your subjective, biased opinions, which you are entitled to, but do not try to pass them off as FACTS.

A real fact is that CSPNJ is not responsible for ALL that you say. I was at the last meeting. I know what the testimony was. I am not

Clearly you do not like them, but that doesn't mean you can make up things and post it publicly. People have gotten sued for less than what you've posted.

Quote
Moreover I will not resort to enflamed emotional responses, accusations, and baseless contradictions.

Emotional, accusatory and baseless - that about sums up your post.

Offline regina

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^ I accidentally deleted part of my post

I am not taking sides. I just know some of what you've posted was not what was said at the Planning Board meeting. And I find it offensive that you berate and degrade people who are trying to better themselves and get help along with the program that is helping them.

Offline Oratam_Weaping

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I never misquoted any statement from the planning board meeting, you do not have a transcript nor sufficient memory to make that claim. Is there any reason you did not extend the courtesy to follow my request that I finish my post before you responded? I believe I have at least two, and if I am correct would you suit me for my opinion, even if it turned out to be plausible, or even fact?:
First Regina you posted:
Those are not facts. They are your subjective, biased opinions, which you are entitled to, but do not try to pass them off as FACTS.

A real fact is that CSPNJ is not responsible for ALL that you say. I was at the last meeting. I know what the testimony was. I am not

Clearly you do not like them, but that doesn't mean you can make up things and post it publicly. People have gotten sued for less than what you've posted.

Quote
Moreover I will not resort to inflamed emotional responses, accusations, and baseless contradictions.

Emotional, accusatory and baseless - that about sums up your post.

And then Regina immediately posted (Because she remembered (hardly anything) everything that was said at the planning board meeting, yet after months here and forty posts "forgot" there is a "modify" option.):

^ I accidentally deleted part of my post

I am not taking sides. I just know some of what you've posted was not what was said at the Planning Board meeting. And I find it offensive that you berate and degrade people who are trying to better themselves and get help along with the program that is helping them.

Regina,

Not all of these people are really trying to better themselves, and not all of them are safe or should be brought into Hackensack by a company that doesw not screen them and has no criteria for their token Indians. The more clients the more grant money, and less for qualified facilities.
I do admit that my sentences though accurately constructed may be difficult to read due to their complex structure. Though they may appear flawed from a liturgically educated perspective, they are quite descriptive. Regina, if you have trouble writing your own posts how can you comprehend and critique mine? You haven't even taken the time to read them. You are posting only negative responses and looking for flaws, yet you state you are not taking sides.  How can you not take sides when you are obviously taking it personal.

I do apologize if you have some kind of difficulty, or are offended to the point of being unable to think clearly, but these posts are not meant for you alone to read and interpret.

So, why do you claim what I and I stated that others said at the meeting was not what was said? You do not have a transcript, yet I am willing to get one. I had already called because I often have to back up my memory with recorded fact from a third party.  Comparison of my piosts to yours is indicative that my intellect, and therefore my memory, is far superior to yours.

The answers are: That you are emotionally charged by this subject which caused you make a mistake, and contrary to your statement you are taking sides. Because, you are "For" the CSP-NJ application.  Do you recall an unsolicited statement you made to me after you overheard me speaking to a different party present about my being against their application? Well I do. I am sure you have forgotten what you said, not simply as a matter of convenience but you lack the mnemonic capability.

For a person who has been a member of this forum,  for quite a few months, and has made over 40 posts, you should be familiar with the "Modify" option, so why did you not simply modify the one post and append it, with or without an explicative footnote to explain the modification that would appear?

I'll try to answer that as well. It is because you not only failed to carefully read and consider my posts, but you are not in possession of sufficient faculties to make certain distinctions. Superior or even an above avg memory would have served you, if you had one. I not only recall my questions and the answers given to them by Irene Sanborn,  inclusive of those by Peter Tucci; I recall the questions between Peter Tucci Jr. and Irene Sanborn, what Each Board member asked, the responses by Mr. Mecca, and even what was said by Peter Tuicci Sr. Kathleen Salvo and Lenny Nix.

My memory is medically documented by a branch and service of the United States Government, and even by an Army-trained medical professional up until 2006. 

You do not have a transcript of the hearing. And it should apparent to anyone, that by your degree of writing, that I am more capable of recalling not only what was said at the meeting, but what I have seen with regard to the conditions of Hackensack over the past 57 years.

Please exercise emotional control, patience, and reading and comprehension of my posts before you try and discredit me to serve yourself.


You never stated your name at the Planning Board Meeting because you did not get up to speak or properly introduce yourself to me. You did state that you were for the application, and I know why you are are stating you are not for or against. Yes I did recall a young woman who spoke to me but I did not know your name until this forum. You sat at the seat furthest on  the left (appropriately) five rows back. You seemed upset when you overheard my telling another person present that I was against the application. I did not know your name was Regina, and it was you who approached me as you got up and moved your seat with your opinion. You avoided eye contact and seemed disorganized with your speech pattern. Were you nervous?

I have not blamed "this" organization for everything wrong with Main Street, but it is apparent Main Street will never be right unless this organization employs standard practise required of State and County facilities along with disqualifications to refer potentially dangerous mental patients, criminal offenders, and unmonitored substance abusers into their program. Instead they  invite bthem here to Hackensack and leave them "On Their Own".
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 09:19:05 AM by Oratam_Weaping »

Offline Oratam_Weaping

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I have moved, and I am going to change the original post, that was in this current post. I have edited  this post with a simple comprehensive reply. The material in this post will be ongoing. Therefore I am asking Regina to carefully read and consider and hold her reply until this post is marked with. "END POST"

My wholehearted and honest intent will place facts, along with reasonable opinion with the concerns for all Hackensack residents, along with equal consideration for the mentally, and emotionally challenged. I have not intentionally blamed CSP-NJ as directly responsible. I mean to say there are consequences that our community has suffered indirectly, and may suffer further still. I will not be sidetracked by emotional response due in part to mis-understanding. In the interest of the continued growth of Hackensack, a positive and fair image, and the safety of all our neighborhoods, I will respond factually and objectively;  any conjecture will be balanced, and well within the realm of higher reasoning in reality. Above all, I will be truthful. All said in a much more simple, and carefully constructed reply. This is an important issue, and I do not want to make any mistakes, or be steered by my own poor choice of words, run-on sentences, etc. Moreover, I have and will not resort, to nor tolerate inflamed emotional responses, accusations, and baseless contradictions.

It is crucial for all Citizens of Hackensack and Business Owners alike, to be aware of the following facts: Homeless are invariably greater than 99% from the ranks of: Mental Outpatients, Recovering Substance Abusers, and Paroled Prisoners.  Most Homeless are not homeless but are sheltered in a variety of means (More on that later).

1) FACT: CSP-NJ has had a presence on Main Street in Hackensack since 1988.
(b) Subjective Fact:  Records will show that the Homeless problem in various areas of Hackensack made a noticeable, gradual, yet sporadic incline since 1989.The incline reduced  and subsided into to a decline when the county installed the new facility for Mental Outpatients, Recovering Substance Abusers, and Paroled Prisoners.
(c) Observation: It is reasonable to agree, that while some of the presence of undesirable persons in Hackensack may be due to issues other than CSP-NJ advertising State and County, as well as private help centers located in  Hackensack and a list of locations throughout the state, it is reasonable to draw a conclusion that CSP-NJ has contributed to the incline of influx by their advertisement, and have created a "transient effect" of people moving from county to county in the cities where CSP-NJ hopes to gain and enlarge grant money by the number of people they serve, regardless if they are served or drop out of the program, or kicked out, they are also free to stay in the city and take up residence just about anywhere, or nowhere.


2) FACT: CSP-NJ stands for Collaborative Suppoprt Programs of New Jersey, which is not a Government agency or licensed treatment facility. It is also not a licensed Vocational Training Center which it leads the public to believe.

3)  FACT: Because CSP-NJ is not a  government agency,  it is not REQUIRED to operate within the guidelines and standards like those operated from the State of New Jersey, County of Bergen, or any licensed facility. By that CSP-NJ is not required, and also testified through their representative that CSP-NJ does not check medical or criminal records. Nor do they have that ability.

4) Conjecture: It is reasonable to believe that CSPNJ does not require or cross check identification, and that apart from federal or state housing applications, false or inadequate identification can be submitted by someone from any place in New Jersey, or the US, if identification is required at all.

5) FACT: Note also that Irene Sanborn testified on behalf of CSP-NJ  ...we don't ask about criminal or medical records... ..clients are free to go to an from any location (In Jersey).. This include the state and private aid resources that CSP-NJ issues to Drug Treatment Centers, Probation Offices, Mental Hospitals, Homeless Shelters, eta al. And, those type locations of CSP-NJ Flier Distribution were included in testimony on July 13th.

6) FACT: The location of CSP-NJ at 179 Main Street does not have Handicap Access, and neither does 1 Essex Street. 1 Essex Street does have the capability to expand their operation while 179 Main Street does not. Reasonable to assume that any number of collaborative agencies can either splinter off CSP-NJ like their sister agency that builds and creates group housing for their clientele.  Similar programs can join CSP-NJ as a neighbor in a similarly unregulated facility; in that location on the third or first floor.

7) FACT: CSP-NJ can avert the "NO Rooming House 'Law"' ANYWHERE -- AND in Hackensack, by converting any single or multi-family dwelling into a Group Home. Group Homes can share kitchen and bath facilities; criminal and drug convictions must be considered equally under the law in a group home or housing applications. Most CSP-NJ clients do not drive and "Walk" to CSP-NJ. Many have found their way to Hackensack through CSP-NJ. Some of them are active alcoholics, panhandlers, drug abusers, and many have ho intent on changing their pattern of chemical or public service dependency.

8 ) FACT: The South Ward, from a few blocks North of the Essex Street Line, West to Green Street, and South to Lodi Street, contains perhaps the largest most densely populated ratio of children to parent that live in a functional family setting; per household to square foot. While some of our business and civic leaders may refer to the 20% of "Those Dominicans" as having a negative impact on the city, might I remind you that I have been living among  Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Dominicans,  Equadorians, Salvadorians, Mexicans, etc... and while many of this ethnic group may be slandered and wrongfully stereo-typed, I stand firm that my Hackensack Hispanic neighbors are among the most respectful, hardworking family oriented, God-fearing individuals of any other ethnic group in this city. We are fortunate here to have such people  and they deserve to be informed as to the exact nature and negative capabilities this center may have upon their neighborhood.

9) FACT:   I informed  Irene Sanborn there are two child day care & nursery centers within one block of the rear lot of 1 Essex Street. I asked if CSP-NJ screens their clientele for history and tendency of pedophilia, whereby  their CSP-NJ attorney protested and objected to the line of questioning. Kids play in the streets, they play behind 1 Essex Street and in the grass lot next door. What about their civil liberties?

10) FACT:  I was falsely arrested in Hackensack in 2005 for protesting in my front yard and being vocal against city policy, for not providing services in the way of a Park for these neighborhood children. While I did cross the line of comfort on the critique of 'the city fathers'  and some of their enforcement practices, I did not deserve to be treated in such a manor. While I did have the grounds and finances to launch a multi-million dollar lawsuit, I refrained from such an action, citing to myself; family loyalty, loyalty to Hackensack, and understanding that my past service has provided a degree of wisdom. A service that which I am not encouraged to speak about from 1972 till 1975, at first requiring parental consent, then a volunteer duty by the signature of my own hand. I am proud of my service and one day I'll write on it if I may.  Knowing that we all suffer from mental and emotional imperfections.  I have real experience serving within the mental health community in both wartime under a strategic command as a paid volunteer, and in peace time as a volunteer. So I knew that my actions and methods could have been much more diplomatic and Christ-centered. And yes, to me church and state go hand in hand. That's why we say God Bless America. As for my service and experience in the mental health field; they include teaching instrumental music since leaving music college in 1981. My services included for handicapped, as in blind, wheelchair bound; and various mentally ill students including, but not limited to those with one or more problems; like Autism, ADD; Dyslexia; Cerebral Palsy, and other 'disorders.'  While I do agree that Mental Health 'disorders are inclusive of  Substance Abuse and Criminal Behavior, I do NOT AGREE that because (SAMSHA) Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration,  classifies them all as mental illnesses, they are the same, and we must be politically correct to where we must tolerate irresponsibility to the degree that it effects or community in a negative way. De-stigmatizing mental illness does not mean we should not employ common sense checks and balances.

b) OPINION: Yet CSP-NJ's imposing their irresponsible criteria for running  'on our own'  has resulted in the stigmatic consequences being further applied; due to the results of their own policies. Simply by covering and not looking at the facts and using "Mentally Ill" as a protectionary phrase to gain grants. While paying their Administration high pay, they use untrained volunteers at the expense of taxpayers which fund their program, and while encouraging their clients (if only by listing of services and word of mouth) to transfer burden from one county to the next and not conducting are caring about the impact on our community. Certainly not by cooperating within the system and allowing the Counties' agencies to be apprised and/or approve of such transfers.



More to follow in this post.

11) FACT: CSP-NJ was offered space at the new County Services facility on River Street next to the Jail but elected not to take that offer. It may be that CSP-NJ requires a need for a documented expenses to attain grants in sufficient amounts to cover their administrative/executive costs.

12. FACT; CSP-NJ has been soliciting requests of support (so far without success)  from business owners on Main Street along with tyring to gain endorsements for their move to 1 Essex with other known agencies involved with promoting main street.  There was no support at the July 13th meeting.

13. FACT: At the July 13th planning board meeting Peter Tucci Sr. addressed the board. He stated that he once sat where 'they' (meaning the planning board members sat) and questioned the decisions that the planning board wanted to consider handicapped spaces and safety precautions as recommended by the building dept. representative. Mr. Tucci also appeared upset that Sansari out bid him on the adjacent property and that it is no fault of his (meaning Mr. Tuicci, himself) he has insufficient parking to rent his building. And while it is true Mr. Tucci does have vacancies, it is also true that the air conditioning unit and ductwork are not in good repair. A third party informed me that tenant had left because Tucci did not repair the air conditioner unit. In fact I am less than 100 foot away from that unit and have not seen it in operation for over ten years. Peter Tucci Sr. has done nothing I am aware of to prevent substance abusers from using his stairwell as a toilet and prevent vagrants from drinking in his parking lot, because when I asked him to allow me to sign complaints to remove trespassers from his property, he refused.

14: FACT: Many mentally Ill patients are wheelchair bound or have difficulty making stairs or require a ramp. 1 Essex Street does not have Handicap Access, yet other locations on Main Street and even on Railroad Avenue are ground level and would be better suited to CSP-NJ client needs. The fact is that they have approached other building owners and have been turned down.  CSP-NJ has no plans to provide a handicap ramp.

15: FACT: The intersection triangle directly across from 1 Essex, and surrounding area streets is dangerous to pedestrians -- and poses an even greater risk to patients who are taking certain types of medication, may be attention deficit, or high on substance.


Offline regina

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" Comparison of my piosts to yours is indicative that my intellect, and therefore my memory, is far superior to yours."

Really Joe? Did you have to go there? Your intellect & memory are superior to mine? I seriously doubt that. And why do you feel the need to attack me personally in more than one post? I cannot even dignify your dribble with a reply.

Since you complain about the money spent and don't think that the people in this program, even a small percentage of them, are worth the costs, I thought I'd share this link with you

http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/charity/chardir.htm

where I found this information:

COLLABORATIVE SUPPORT PROGRAMS OF NJ
9 SPRING ST, FREEHOLD NJ, 07728
Phone: 732-780-1175
Income  Expenses
Direct Public Contributions: $6,086.00               Program Expenses: $10,339,269.00
Indirect Public Contributions: 0.00                     Management Expenses: $1,489,921.00
Government Grants: $11,631,163.00                Fund Raising: 0.00
Program Service Revenue: $94,715.00              Payments to Affiliates: 0.00
Other Support: $54,571.00                                Total Expenses: $11,829,190.00
Total Revenue: $11,786,535.00   

 
Registration Number: CH0356800  Report in File: 06/30/09

Honestly, I think that they are better than most. They spend 1/10 of their funds on management.

I deal with facts, Joe and I have an excellent mind and memory.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 03:07:49 PM by Editor »

Offline regina

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You state "You never stated your name at the Planning Board Meeting because you did not get up to speak or properly introduce yourself to me. You did state that you were for the application, and I know why you are are stating you are not for or against. Yes I did recall a young woman who spoke to me but I did not know your name until this forum. You sat at the seat furthest on  the left (appropriately) five rows back. You seemed upset when you overheard my telling another person present that I was against the application. I did not know your name was Regina, and it was you who approached me as you got up and moved your seat with your opinion. You avoided eye contact and seemed disorganized with your speech pattern. Were you nervous?"
(could not use quote function, so had to copy & paste - I'm at work and don't have the time to figure this out)

I believe that the person you describe is a client of CSPNJ, not me. You scared her at the meeting. I am quite sure you are not describing me as I am not a "young woman" and my speech pattern is perfectly fine.

I was at the Planning Board meeting. I did not know that I was required to "properly introduce" myself to you. If you had stayed around until the end of the meeting you would have heard me speak. I am not the nervous type. I speak quite often at Council meetings and with facts to back me up. Your personal attacks on me are just more proof of who is the emotional one in this discussion.

You are looking out for yourself (NIMBY) and I have no personal interest in this application, other than being a resident of Hackensack and the fairness of the Planning Board process.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 03:08:47 PM by Editor »

Offline Oratam_Weaping

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What personal attack, yours? No. It was you who spoke to me at the meeting. I am sure of it. If you have read my posts and knew anything about me it is Hackensack I am concerned for, and WE especially do  not want CSPNJ in our neighborhood. I see the game you are playing, and it was you. I used "young woman" to try and be civil. I am a young man at 57. I think the communication between you ade I are detracting from the facts. Obviously you are far too opinionated, and it was you who attacked me, not the other way around. There is a way to have a discussion, if you have nothing informative of constructive to contribute please find another thread.

Another thing, you resort to placing my name and location while I choose to be anonymous. I have not attacked you, but only defended myself. First your remark about my yard, well you obviously took note of my name and my address. I will ask you in a very nice way to remove any references to my location or name or your surely will find yourself in court. I have a right to privacy. If I wanted my name and location revealed in this forum I would have done it myself.

I would like to see an audit of CSP-NJ along with those of their directors and other interested parties. Perhaps the interest can be traced to some very peculiar places. We shall see.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 01:55:02 PM by Oratam_Weaping »

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This conversation has degenerated into an unproductive war of words.  I've received reports of abuse and feel compelled to shut this down unless the tone changes. Apparently, you both know each other and can continue your conversation in email, chat or another forum of your choosing.   

Thanks for your understanding.

 

anything