Author Topic: CSPNJ Services for Homeless: Susbtance Abusers and Mentally Ill - Pro and/or Con  (Read 17931 times)

Offline regina

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"Oratam"

The name is in the newspaper article - so much for anonymity

Personal attacks on me that you seem to have forgotten you made
1. you do not have a transcript nor sufficient memory to make that claim
2. Because she remembered (hardly anything) everything
3. you lack the mnemonic capability
4. Comparison of my piosts to yours is indicative that my intellect, and therefore my memory, is far superior to yours
5. you are not in possession of sufficient faculties to make certain distinctions

Since you don't know me, ask someone about me. I am not some dummy and I don't show up for just an issue in my own backyard.
Easy enough to find out about me as I am not hiding behind a screen name.

Offline Homer Jones

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 It is certainly beyond the scope of this forum to settle personality issues.

Offline Oratam_Weaping

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I would like very much to stay on topic to clarify and extrapolate viable points about CSP-NJ and put into perspective my concerns about Hackensack.  First off, there is nothing more moving than a wake-up call akin to an artillery shell going off in close proximity to your camp. You realize the gun that fired it should be stopped or commandeered because it is about to be fortified and backed up with night drop of supplies and fresh troops. It's not longer about Lower or Upper Main Street, North or South Ward. It is about the entire city and it's fragile condition at the very bottom of the economy. It is about the stigma Hackensack has  throughout the county, and whole ethnic grous capable of revitalizing or adding to an economy.

I am not at odds with the Homeless, substance abusers, mentally ill, or CSP-NJ. I am at odds with the CSP-NJ system and their services and capabilities. I am also at odds with people who refuse to understand my points. The main point and other stand out points, should be self-evident.
While the provisions below are intended for public safety, they are also of use for counseling purposes so that their history and progress could be gauged and better served.

Also, while notice requirements for change of use, are to the property owners within 200 feet of the site, in cases which bring groups of individuals that can impact on the community, especially something of this nature; where, a wide  mix of individuals with histories of crime, drug abuse, and unspecified degrees/severity of mental illness may/exist; there should be a more thorough descriptive of the type of clientele they will attract.
CSP-NJ should produce a chart using anonymous data  that discloses what the degree and percentage of individuals have been; involved; effected; committed; convicted; of what illnesses or offenses, when. This information should be provided to the local authorities where the client (not anonymous) input data is verified with state. Then the anonymous statistics must be released to the community by way of owners and all tenants/mailing addresses, at the expense of the applicant - to all businesses and households within a 1000 foot radius, and should also be published in a public notice.

The community should have the right to speak their concerns and such concerns should be a higher consideration than what is allowed by Zoning/Planning law. The intent of any law is for the benefit of the public at large.

So what is the problem with CSP-NJ


1) CSP-NJ does not document their contacts by backing up their appointments and applications by requiring information which should include:

(a.) Positive Identification and information exchange - with a reporting to local, county, and state database, fopr crosschecking and current alerts.
(b.) disclosure of other programs they may have been involved in - to complete data base cross records, and to track the progress of an individual
(c.) an interview where an applicant must disclose the nature of their disability, crime, if they are on Megan's List, to denote the character and truthfulness of the individual, and to aid in providing information valuable to local and state data records.
(d) Taking a photo I.D. of all applicants to upgrade state database and provide local authorities a means by which to help identify  one of their clients should they be hospitalized, the victim of a crime, or a perpetrator of a crime.
(3) Acquire a list of last legal addresses from each applicant to better keep taxpayher dollare working for individuals who actually live in the communities they are sweeing services, and housing.

4) CSP-NJ should only distribute information about any given facility, theirs or others'  to local facilities.

5) The establishment of a group home by CSP-NJ's sister company, or any entity must be put before a zoning/Planing board and all residents within a 1000 foot radius must be notified by return receipt certified mail.

6) Require a handicap ramp access to any building and 40-inch doors so that the handicapped may have equal access.

7) Conduct a review of traffic patterns, devices, part of a thorough safety net to ensure that the site location is not a potential hazard for pedestrians and motorists.

8) The city of Hackensack should require an annual license and uphold these requirements (1-7) for any non-governmental, or non-medically certified entity; and that license and  such requirements must be applied to any new or existing entities of this nature.

This is not an attack non the civil liberties, nor it is a negative stigmatization of the wide array of persons to be classified as mentally ill by SAMSHA.
This is a method of preservation for the civil liberties of home and business owners; an aid to Mental Health Facilities; Law Enforcement; and a quality device for the very clients that CSP-NJ hopes to help rehabilitate.


Offline regina

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Editor & Others reading this thread

I apologize for my part in the downward spiral of this thread. I think you know that I speak my mind, not only hear but at open meetings, and have been doing so for years. I took offense to some posts and I had only tried to clarify what I thought were misrepresentations.

All should feel free to post here without personal attacks. This will play out at an open public meeting, not in this venue.

Again, sorry.

Offline Oratam_Weaping

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Apology accepted and mirrored. I have always believed that clarifications are best done with a more gentile approach, and an understanding that we are all imperfect at the use of the English language. We often do not explain ourselves and our beliefs  as well as we may think, and emotions can run amok into further misunderstanding. Everyone wants to blame the other but the fact is, blame is better left to a progress of no-fault in the interest of resolution, and clarification. Many times, there are good people with good ideas who are often unable to express them in the best way, and that misunderstanding can lead to the loss of a solution. In some instance what may seem like a harsh blow, or a ruckus, can develop into a helpful idea for all concerned.  - Signed, One who is "reading this thread".
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 08:26:18 PM by Oratam_Weaping »

Offline BLeafe

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As the site moderator, I've received multiple complaints with regard to this never-ending verbal slugfest between "regina" and "Oratam_(misspelled word)".

Enough.

We've all heard your respective stances...........repeatedly. The Editor has asked you both to continue your diatribes elsewhere. That's a nice way of saying "STOP!" Totally.

You've both posted "apologies", so that better be it. No further "clarifications" or anything else are required...........or wanted.

To paraphrase the Editor: take this outside and don't bring it back in.

Thank you.
Like music? Like photography? Step into my office: http://xrl.us/BobL - - - - - - - http://xrl.us/BobsDarkness

Offline Oratam_Weaping

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I am proposing the enumerated points to the mayor and council in the form of a letter. After much discussion with many residents of the South Ward in both Spanish and English it has become clear that no-body wants an organization that operates using policies which places their children and woman at risk. Personally I feel that an unregulated business of this nature should not be anywhere in this city, and I am hoping the county, state, and perhaps federal government should do more.  The power however, does remain with the city and its residents to enact local requirements such as I mentioned below. The one problem for this area of the South Ward (near one Essex) South Ward is that most of these residents do not speak Enough English to have their concerns heard. However that is about to change and we Bi-lingual individuals realize that people should not be excluded from a voice because they speak only Spanish, Italian, or are poor. We are hoping to have the city put in a system of translation with mini-receivers and a second court reporter in Spanish to be available as more and more Hispanic and Italian residents take in interest in this city, because we will have a voice, and we should.

I am going to take the ball on this and hoping we could pass this around like a team. If anyone here has ideas that would help stop the problems of vagrancy, public drinking, panhandling IN GENERAL please either post your ideas or message me privately or join me on August 10th. Overall the is a problem regardless and there can be solutions if we all get together in a good way. Thanks.

I would like very much to stay on topic to clarify and extrapolate viable points about CSP-NJ and put into perspective my concerns about Hackensack.  First off, there is nothing more moving than a wake-up call akin to an artillery shell going off in close proximity to your camp. You realize the gun that fired it should be stopped or commandeered because it is about to be fortified and backed up with night drop of supplies and fresh troops. It's not longer about Lower or Upper Main Street, North or South Ward. It is about the entire city and it's fragile condition at the very bottom of the economy. It is about the stigma Hackensack has  throughout the county, and whole ethnic grous capable of revitalizing or adding to an economy.

I am not at odds with the Homeless, substance abusers, mentally ill, or CSP-NJ. I am at odds with the CSP-NJ system and their services and capabilities. I am also at odds with people who refuse to understand my points. The main point and other stand out points, should be self-evident.
While the provisions below are intended for public safety, they are also of use for counseling purposes so that their history and progress could be gauged and better served.

Also, while notice requirements for change of use, are to the property owners within 200 feet of the site, in cases which bring groups of individuals that can impact on the community, especially something of this nature; where, a wide  mix of individuals with histories of crime, drug abuse, and unspecified degrees/severity of mental illness may/exist; there should be a more thorough descriptive of the type of clientele they will attract.
CSP-NJ should produce a chart using anonymous data  that discloses what the degree and percentage of individuals have been; involved; effected; committed; convicted; of what illnesses or offenses, when. This information should be provided to the local authorities where the client (not anonymous) input data is verified with state. Then the anonymous statistics must be released to the community by way of owners and all tenants/mailing addresses, at the expense of the applicant - to all businesses and households within a 1000 foot radius, and should also be published in a public notice.

The community should have the right to speak their concerns and such concerns should be a higher consideration than what is allowed by Zoning/Planning law. The intent of any law is for the benefit of the public at large.

So what is the problem with CSP-NJ


1) CSP-NJ does not document their contacts by backing up their appointments and applications by requiring information which should include:

(a.) Positive Identification and information exchange - with a reporting to local, county, and state database, fopr crosschecking and current alerts.
(b.) disclosure of other programs they may have been involved in - to complete data base cross records, and to track the progress of an individual
(c.) an interview where an applicant must disclose the nature of their disability, crime, if they are on Megan's List, to denote the character and truthfulness of the individual, and to aid in providing information valuable to local and state data records.
(d) Taking a photo I.D. of all applicants to upgrade state database and provide local authorities a means by which to help identify  one of their clients should they be hospitalized, the victim of a crime, or a perpetrator of a crime.
(3) Acquire a list of last legal addresses from each applicant to better keep taxpayher dollare working for individuals who actually live in the communities they are sweeing services, and housing.

4) CSP-NJ should only distribute information about any given facility, theirs or others'  to local facilities.

5) The establishment of a group home by CSP-NJ's sister company, or any entity must be put before a zoning/Planing board and all residents within a 1000 foot radius must be notified by return receipt certified mail.

6) Require a handicap ramp access to any building and 40-inch doors so that the handicapped may have equal access.

7) Conduct a review of traffic patterns, devices, part of a thorough safety net to ensure that the site location is not a potential hazard for pedestrians and motorists.

8) The city of Hackensack should require an annual license and uphold these requirements (1-7) for any non-governmental, or non-medically certified entity; and that license and  such requirements must be applied to any new or existing entities of this nature.

This is not an attack non the civil liberties, nor it is a negative stigmatization of the wide array of persons to be classified as mentally ill by SAMSHA.
This is a method of preservation for the civil liberties of home and business owners; an aid to Mental Health Facilities; Law Enforcement; and a quality device for the very clients that CSP-NJ hopes to help rehabilitate.
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Offline just watching

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Everyone is missing the main point here.

The County just opened a "one-stop" giant homeless operation on South River Street next to the jail.  Their "pitch", which was fully supported by The Record, was that its better to consolidate all the operations into one place where it can be more effective.  It's been built, it's open, and all accounts are that it is successful.  So, are we done?  Are we ever done?

The great social services crusade in Hackensack began in the mid-1980s'.  The history has been consistent --- no matter how much is built and how important every new facility is, there is NO END to the needs for more programs.  The more that social services that are established in Hackensack, the more Hackensack becomes a magnet for the overflow from Newark, Paterson, NYC, and everywhere in between.  The amount of overflow is literally endless, and can be measured potentially in the tens of thousands of people. Word gets around that its much cleaner and safer in Hackensack, and they migrate over here as homeless or as a boarding house resident.  After a few months here, they enter the system as a so-called "Hackensack resident".  And it's not just the cities sourcing the problem, they are coming in from all over Bergen County, Rockland County, upper Passaic County, and even Morris County.  And that is why so many of the homeless are white people. Hey, if I was white and homeless I wouldn't want to be in downtown Paterson either.

It's not that we don't want to help people in need.  At some point, any rational person should look at the population of Hackensack (about 45,000) and look at the amount of social services here, and then say, "OK, this city should really be commended for all that they have done, why can't every other city and town do as much as Hackensack, relative to their population".  It shouldn't be about making even more social services in Hackensack. It should be about praising us and trying to shame other cities and towns into doing their fair share. Instead it's now about the Fair Street fair share.

Moving CSPNJ from 179 Main Street to 1 Essex Street is probably good for the merchants on Main Street north of Atlantic Ave.  However, it's not good for the neighborhood around Fair Street.  I am in complete agreement that some of the mentally ill could be pedophiles, and could present a risk to children.

Offline Oratam_Weaping

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You must understand that CSP-NJ wants to get people out of Homeless Shelters and into Group Homes which do not need a variance of license to operate. They can use A Federal court decision to force any group home into any neighborhood. Since they only want the best for their clients it makes sense they will chose the 1 and 2 family residential areas in Hackensack when those homes are available.

The Homeless you see on the street do not comply with the County Restrictions.  There are less homeless visible now all over Hackensack because of the NEW shelter.  The residents of Group homes do not have to be Bergen residents, and will likely bee people from rooming houses wherever they distribute flyers and where conditions are very bad.

PLEASE READ THE ATTACHED PDF

Offline Oratam_Weaping

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Where CSP-NJ  is concerned, it is apparent that a State and Federal Corruption Probe must be initiated, ongoing to nature the nature inappropriate business practice. One side of CSP-NJ is a non-profit corporation that is in direct association with a profit company which is involved with real; estate transactions. In cat CSP-NJ workers have contacted owners/agents and attained rentals for their clients in Hackensack. An array of scenarios pose a potential nightmare on many levels  with regard to rental property owners, developers, their personal assets, and dealings in the city of Hackensack, and certain interested entities. This is a triple dipping tax dollar extraction program that in my opinion benefits the officers and directors of CSP-NJ, their sister profit realty company, and inadvertently any agents, owners, or investors who rent, own, purchase, housing where the government pays (directly or indirectly) for the clients rental unit.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 09:58:01 AM by Oratam_Weaping »

Offline just watching

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The readers need to know something important about CSPNJ's application. Just a simple question.

What is the square footage of the space currently being used at 179 Main Street.  And what is the square footage of the space that will be used at 1 Essex Street ?

This will allow everyone to assess how much the organization is growing in capacity as a result of the proposed move.

Offline regina

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Sorry, but their growth has nothing to do with the merits of a Planning Board application. Should any business owner be denied because he/she is successful? Or just the businesses you don't like? It is a permitted use. I don't know what happened or if it was heard last night.

Offline just watching

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If they are moving into 10 times larger space, or just trading the same square footage, that makes a very big difference in my mind.

If the square footage is the same, one could make the argument that there is no net degradation to Hackensack, the problem is just being moved from the center of the retail strip to the Courthouse/First Ward area.  The board needs to decide what's worse, subjecting the business climate in the heart of Main Street, or subjecting the Fair Street neighborhood to troubled people wandering around, and potential pedophiles interacting with local children in vacant lots, behind garbage dumpsters, or even in their homes.

But if its going to be a huge expansion of the facility, that's another whole aspect to consider.


Offline regina

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How irresponsible! What makes you think that any of these people are "potential pedophiles"? There are plenty of troubled people walking around who are not part of any program - homeless, alcoholic, drug addicted, depressed and even animal abusers.

Offline just watching

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All mentally ill people are not pedophiles.  BUT....all pedophiles are mentally ill. 

It's a legitimate question to ask.   Could some of the mentally ill wandering around Hackensack be pedophiles ???  who knows ???

I've noticed that one of the other respondents on this string likes to make personal attacks on people.  I have not made any person attacks on any of the other people posting on this string, and I have no intent to do so.