Hackensack, NJ Community Message Boards
General Category => Hackensack History => Topic started by: Editor on February 08, 2008, 04:40:35 PM
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I found this in the "archives" at City Hall. It was in a folder from the 1930's.
Any observations?
Click the image to enlarge. You'll need to sroll left and right with your mouse or arrow keys.
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very cool picture. lots of recognizable things there, and lots of things that are long gone.
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What's most shocking is how RURAL Essex Street is west of Summit Ave towards Route 17. There's NOTHING there but fields and woods.
Looks like the plan for River Street was already in place, even though the traffic was minimal. Same thing for the Esplanade and Maple Hill Drive. All the streets are there, with hardly any houses. Same for the high school athletic fields west of First Street, except that wound up as school property instead of development.
Look at all the commercial structures between Trinity Place and the railroad, all are now gone except the Mosque (former Knights of Columbus). Houses all along Prospect except #406 (corner of Passaic Street)
Some major structures dominated that are gone (1) Myer Street school (2) Fox theatre
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Click here (http://www.hackensacknow.com/images/aerialhigherres.jpg) for a higher resolution (600dpi) scan of the aerial photo. I still haven't confirmed an exact date for this image. Any guesses?
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No guesses yet, but there should be records of the following:
(1) When buildings around what is now city hall were torn down for expanding the parking and building the police and fire stations. The photo shows the City hall building, but no parking
(2) Expansions to the high school. The photo shows none, just the old 4-story part of the building.
(3) Expansions to Hackensack Hospital. Some of those buildings in the photo may have been built in the 1930's
I also see housing infill beginning on Maple Hill Drive and vicinity. I tend to think that didn't happen early in the decade.
I also see that the building housing the former Womrath's wasn't built yet. Interesting.
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When the city planned a new municipal complex, a new fire headquarters was included as a top priority. After two years of building, the fire department, on July 1, 1974, moved into its present headquarters at 205 State St. The old headquarters was soon torn down, however, part of it is still intact. Three walls of the old structure were left standing and are visible in parts of the new complex. (source (http://www.hackensack.org/content/49/142/229/default.aspx)).
That only tells us that the picture was taken prior to 1974. I'll keep digging.
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The image is before 1958:
The Annex building that joins the Administration Building with the rotunda building was completed in 1958. (source (http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/bergen/history.htm))
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Take a look at the north side of Kansas Street between Hudson and Fair Streets. The site for the Senior Citizens bldg. at 60 Kansas Street was leveled and it looks like it was ready for construction. I am sure that there is a plaque on the bldg. showing when it was dedicated. Obviously the photo was taken before the building was constructed.
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Here is another clue. Look at the top of the photo and at the east side of Prospect Avenue just to the north of the building at 2-4-6-8 Prospect Avenue across from the end of Thompson Street. When the HUMC finished it's first major expansion which I believe is the Link Pavilion, there was a row of housing along Prospect Avenue on the site which is shown in the photo as being vacant. These buildings were demolished in the early to mid 1970's so that Prospect Avenue could be widened and parking provided along Prospect Avenue in conjunction with the Link Pavilion project.. These properties that were demolished weren't even built yet when the photo was taken.
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And a third clue from Ol' Homer. Tighten up on the northeast corner of Main Street and Washington Place. The Mansion House is still standing; but, it looks like excavation has started on the property just behind and east of the Mansion House. It also looks like construction or demolition trailers are parked haphazardly on Washington Place. Soooooo if we can determine when construction started at 60 Kansas Street and the Mansion House property the outside latest date of the aerial photo can be determined. And if records can be found when construction started on the homes that were built before the Link Pavilion was built, the photo date may be even more closely defined. I wouldn't be surprised if this housing was constructed as returning veterans housing after WW 2.
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The image is from before 1945.
The Mansion House is still standing
From a local menu (http://xrl.us/PoorsMenu - pdf pg 14):
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Interesting. I just looked at the Housing Authority web site and 60 Kansas Street (Harry Berkie Gardens) was built in 1967.
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Ok, so Bob's in the lead in dating it to at least 1945. Can anyone date it earlier?
By the way, look at the high res scan again (http://www.hackensacknow.com/images/aerialhigherres.jpg). I accidentally cut off the far right side (Passaic Street) in my first upload attempt. Now you can see the full image.
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The enlarged view of the picture shows that the Oratani Theater hasn't been built yet and the Prospect Ave Train Station is clearly on American Legion east of Prospect.
Once enlarged and time spent... a lot of things become obvious. Pretty cool ! 8)
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I am not so sure that the Oritani Theatre wasn't built at the time of the photo. Look at the Fox theatre in the photo. The stage or screen area was at the western part of the building. When theatres of that era were constructed, the stage area was always built higher than the seating area since stage sets were raised and lowered from hoists above the stage area. Looking again at the photo you can see the seating area under an arched roof where the patrons were facing the westerly direction toward the stage.
Now, lets walk across the street to the Oritani Theatre site. At the Oritani Theatre, the stage was at the south end of the building behind the stores on East Camden Street and the building extended north from the stage so that the patrons were seated looking south. The entrance was on Main St. perpendicular to the seating.
Although it is difficult to see the building in it's true perspective, you can see a high stage area adjacent to East Camden Street with what looks like two ducts on the roof. Looking closely, you can make out the seating area so that the patrons would have been looking south towards the stage.
It is hard to see the Oritani; but, if you know what you are looking for, you can see the theatre.
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FYI: "Standard Aerial Surveys operated out of a factory building in Hackensack, New Jersey from about 1931(or 32) to 1938, when it was moved to Newark, New Jersey."
http://www.dmairfield.org/airplanes/NC858E/index.html (Thanks Jim).
I realize this doesn't help date the photo.
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The Eureka Theater, built in 1917, was situated in the middle of the north side of Banta Place.
The Fox Theater was built in 1931, the largest theater in Bergen County. The Fox and the Oritani, built in 1926, are the only two theaters remaining in Hackensack. From Heritage to Horizons (http://www.hackensack.org/filestorage/70/1976%20History%20Book.pdf), 1976).
So, if the Oritani is in the picture, then all we can say now is that the picture was taken between 1931 and 1945, correct?
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If we assume that the photo company wasn't in business prior to their operating out of a factory building in Hackensack starting in 1931, and if the theater was in fact constructed in 1926, then 1931 would be the bottom of the range. If we can verify that the Mansion House was demolished in 1945 as the Poor's management claims, then 1945 would be the top of the range.What we have to do now is find something(s) that were built within the 14 year gap and the range will be narrowed.
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George Scudder says that the Fox was built after the Oritani (http://xrl.us/ScudderTheaters), so if you see the Fox, you see the Oritani.
According to the below, the Fox opened in 1932, so the maximum time frame for the image to have been taken is 1932-1945.
(sorry, Editor - I was working off Homer's last post on the previous page and didn't see that you essentially said the same thing above)
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SOME MORE CLUES from buildings that I suspect were built in the 1930's
NOT STANDING --- the large Bell Telephone building on State Street across from Christ Episcopal
STANDING --- Original bus terminal building on River Street
STANDING ---- bank building on SE corner of State St and Salem
STANDING --- 40 Passaic Street, large apartment on corner of State and passaic
STANDING --- 1st Prebyterian Church, at Union and Passaic. Looks older, but it isn't.
STANDING --- PSE&G industrial building on South Newman Street
STANDING --- oil tank farm, what is now Costco
STANDING --- Edna B. Conklin Home, Essex & Green
Finding when any of these buildings were built will narrow down the date range.
And again, the hospital complex building and expansions, I believe were in the 30s'. I also don't believe that ROute 17 was built until at least the mid-late 30's, and that is also in the photo.
I wonder if the vacant lot for the Senior's building on Kansas Street was a vegetable garden. I was also SHOCKED to see a large rectangular building on Propspect Ave exactly where Quail Heights II is located. I remember when that house was torn down, it was set way back from the street, and almost dead on it's south property line. It had large buildings on both sides of it. The front yard was a big grassy yard, no rectangular building. What on God's earth is that rectangular building ? Where is "prospectgirl" when we need her ? She would know.
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The hospital expansion I was referring to -- the Link Pavilion -- was built in the early 1970's.
Most churches have cornerstones. Maybe Mr. Leafe could take a look at the date on the cornerstone, if there is one, of the Church on Passaic and Union.
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Churches with websites usually have a history link. They're very proud (and very detailed) about their histories.
Two clicks bring you to this:
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That was a quick response. At least we know that building is outside our 13 year window.
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ROUTE 17
Prior to 1927, Rt 17 was Rt 17N, but the route followed local streets. In 1927, it became Rt 2. The route was moved to a multilane divided highway BY 1937 - not IN 1937, so we can't nail down a year. It became Rt 17 in 1942.
None of this helps our quest, but this next bit might narrow it down a little more:
MUNICIPAL BUS TERMINAL
Assuming I've got the right municipal bus terminal, according to this - http://xrl.us/MunicTerm - it opened in 1937, so the image should be from somewhere between 1937 and 1945.
If the original folder is accurate, it would be between 1937 and 1939.
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As they used to say in the Army, "The shot group is getting tighter."
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The text below is from the 7/15/41 Meeting Minutes (http://webdocs.generalcode.com/codes/0454_B/1941-07-15.pdf#xml=http://webdocs.generalcode.com/searchresults.asp?cmd=pdfhits&DocId=1341&Index=C%3a\Program%20Files\dtSearch\UserDataWD\0454_B&HitCount=1&hits=46b+&hc=99&req=demolition). It notes an item for payment for the demolition of 73 State St (corner of Myer and State). This is a vacant lot in the aerial picture, based on comparisons to Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=map:+73+State+Street,+Hackensack,+NJ&sll=40.880713,-74.046194&sspn=0.002146,0.004823&gl=us&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=73+State+St,+Hackensack,+Bergen,+New+Jersey+07601&ll=40.880692,-74.046317&spn=0.002146,0.004823&t=h&z=18). It's where Zaentz Hardware is now, although now it's "75 State".
If my theory holds, this dates the picture to between 1941 and 1945. If local finance law was then what it is now, municipalities can't pay for services until they are rendered. So, it's likely that the building was demolished before the bill appeared on the 1941 bills list. True- it could also have come down any time before 1941 but one would think the contractor would expect payment soon after the work is complete.
You can search the Historic Meeting Minutes here (http://www.hackensack.org/content/70/2684/default.aspx) for more clues.
Note: According the Inflation Calendar (http://www.westegg.com/inflation), what cost $75.00 in 1941 would cost $1080.89 in 2009.
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[This was also posted in the "Hackensack Street Cars/Trolleys (Photos)" topic]
I just found a page - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=300912 - that shows a trolley car in the "Hackensack Car Yard".
It also gives a date - August 4, 1938 - and mentions that it's two days before "abandonment of the Hudson River Line", so now we know when that major trolley line ceased to serve Hackensack.
We also now know that Editor's picture could not have been taken before 1938 (or after 1945).
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Another great image find from Bob!
In all fairness, the Meeting Minutes also indicate that 165 Union St was demolished by March 1, 1938. Click here for the minutes (http://webdocs.generalcode.com/codes/0454_B/1939-05-01.pdf#xml=http://webdocs.generalcode.com/searchresults.asp?cmd=pdfhits&DocId=1265&Index=C%3a\Program%20Files\dtSearch\UserDataWD\0454_B&HitCount=2&hits=1369+13b3+&hc=30&req=demolished).
In the picture below, 165 Union could be the empty space next to the white building, but who knows? It's roughly were Google maps has 165 Union now (http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&q=map:+165+Union+Street,+Hackensack,+NJ&fb=1&gl=us&hnear=&cid=0,0,16709135772231367084&ei=Lxl_TNShGMH78AbI0JDTAw&ved=0CBcQnwIwAA&hq=map:+165+Union+Street,+Hackensack,+NJ&ll=40.883884,-74.046569&spn=0.002145,0.004823&t=h&z=18) but Google's address are only "approximate".
This would bring the image to between 1938-1945. I think I'll stick to "73 State" theory but offer this as an alternative.
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I'm 2800 miles and 23 years away, so don't know if this will help the sleuths on this board or not.... but if you look below Hillers School you will see there is a large house where "2nd Ward Park", maybe "3rd Ward Park" is, I forget the name.... when I was a kid there was a large concrete building there with a terrace facing Polifly Road. I'm sure it had a plaque with a date on it. If the building still exists that might be a clue to narrowing down the dates. Between the time Hillers was built and this park building was built. Hope it helps.
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I'm glad so many people are helping with this.
ROUTE 17 --- Someone posted that it became a multi-lane divided highway by 1937, but not necessarily in 1937. That is shown on the photo, so the photo has to be 1937 or later. Doesn't matter if it was called Route 2 at the time.
Not sure how important the rail abandonment information is to dating the aerial photo. The rail line was abandoned on a specific date, but the rails weren't ripped up on that date. They were there for many years later, and it is possible that a trolley car could have been abandoned.
I wasn't referring to the Link Pavillion hospital expansion. Some of the large buildings in the hospital campus date to this approximate time period, even if they are now completely encased inside larger buildings. Is there a hospital historian that can be contacted to view that portion of the aerial photo.
Looks like we have 1937 as the bottom window (based on Municipal Bus Terminal information) and approximately 1942 as the top window. That's interesting about the 73 State Street information, could the pic actually be WWII vintage.
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I have pondering the 73 State Street theory put forth, and now express serious doubts on that one.
Yes, the vacant lot at the SW corner of State and Myer is approximately where 73 would be. But so is the dark-colored house next to it.
Lots of houses had double-lots back then. Land wasn't at the premium it is now. That was probably the side yard or the garden plot for that adjacent house. Or just a lot being held vacant for future real estate construction by the house next door, or some other person who lives somewhere else. We cannot assume that a house formerly stood on that lot. I think it is more likely that the lot was held by the house next door, for one reason or another.
It was probably the dark-colored house that was demolished in 1941. It's in the aerial photo, therefore 1941 is the upper limit of the photo. The 165 Union Street evidence is interesting, there is a new duplex there now. It replaced a vacant lot and a very small very old red house that was close to the street (167). I heard once that there was previously another small house on that vacant lot, also close to the street. So that would be 165, and BLeafe has identified when it was demolished. So we're looking at mid 1938 as the lower date limit.
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Look at the YMHA on Essex Street, see the bare trees around it. There are no leaves on the trees, therefore it is likely to have been taken Nov 1 - April 15th.
There is also no snow on the ground and no ice in the river, but that is not definitive. The picture could be January in a warm winter.
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Not sure how important the rail abandonment information is to dating the aerial photo. The rail line was abandoned on a specific date, but the rails weren't ripped up on that date.
It's important because service ceased in August of 1938 and there is no in-use trolley track visible in the picture - save for the dead-end track in the yard - so the rails were already ripped out. The information set a new bottom limit of 1938 at a time when that limit was 1937 - one step in the process, for those who are paying attention.
Route 17:
<< Doesn't matter if it was called Route 2 at the time. >>
That's why I wrote the following under my Rt 17 info:
"None of this helps our quest"
165 Union:
<< "So that would be 165, and BLeafe has identified when it was demolished." >>
Thanks, but that identification was provided by our good friend, the Editor.
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